1:07. I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? Glock is being sued too, because once loaded and a round is chambered, it also has a much lighter trigger than a DA/SA. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. Zero in the affirmative. SEPTA officer's handgun spontaneously fired in Philly's Suburban Station Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . RKC, the first time someone presented me with a 1911 whose trigger rivaled my Pythons single action, I started wondering about that. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. And on the flip side of the coin is the decades of denial by Remington on the 700 which Ive seen firsthand. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. Either the gun is defective or its not. My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. Alec Baldwin fatally shoots cinematographer, injures director on set of Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! 3. . I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. And the idea some random comment section P320 hater thinks theyre smarter & more knowledgeable than the Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and Marine Corp combined regarding military pistol selection is just freaking laughable! But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. They are being replaced with Glocks. Bravo. Note also that ABC didnt provide any context for the number of suits filed against SIG. Whether or not the suits have merit. Look a fanboy. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. Nope. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. The problem is non-existent. LOL! And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. Sig Sauer P320 [Review+Video]: Worth It? - Pew Pew Tactical I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. . . The round went downrange so nobody was hurt. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. Unlawful Discharge of a Firearm: Texas Laws - The Law Office of Greg I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! Who knows. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . Sig Sauer Faces $10 Million Lawsuit over P320 Pistol After Alleged Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! Yaaay! PSA-P320 Accidental Discharge Threads | SIG Talk Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. I sold that pistol when I got it back. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. P320 X Compact is it safe CCW | SIG Talk Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. Still waiting. Search Texas Statutes. Liberal, Conservative. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. How about something more relevant. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. Wheee!!. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. Hey, Im sitting here staring at my P320, waiting for it to go bang! SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. He was told to shoot two rounds. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. On Thursday, M.D. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. 2. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. It has nothing to do with Glock. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. . Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. Because its flat out bull**it. 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. Does the P365 have a similar reputation for spontaneous - SIG Talk (unless theyre SWAT or something). Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. there is no better. That focus drifts. The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. It nicely describes what has to happen in a striker-fired P320 for an un-commanded discharge to happen as the plaintiffs have claimed. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. Sig P320 discharge while holstered | Sniper's Hide Forum Sig Sauer P320: The US Army Loves This Gun (But There Is a Problem) Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. 3. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. You couldnt ask questions. Sig Sauer Refuses to Recall Its P320 Handgun - The Stoddard Firm , 54 people all shooting themselves. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. No picture for me. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer L. LRRifleman . At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. It has been flawless so far. He points to it in the video. "It has a clear capacity to fire without the trigger being pulled under certain conditions," said Hilton's lawyer, Jeffrey Bagnell. Seems a bit apologetic to me. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? This gun had been voluntary upgraded. Is it? The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! I have no idea. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. 01:10. to docile, too subtle, to contextual. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. One hell of a conspiracy. Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. It was expensive. The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. According to Section 22.05 of the Texas Penal Code, engaging in deadly conduct with a firearm is considered a felony of the third degree. Did a Sig Sauer P320 Fire On Its Own? A Police Officer - 19FortyFive Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. We will respect the ongoing investigation and will not offer further comment at this time, Bineau said. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. congrats. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong - CBC The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum About Those SIG P320 Lawsuits - The Truth About Guns Circumstances that explained those un-commanded discharges.. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. I agree. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. Where is that defect now? They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. That being the case, the 320 is a cocked and locked striker-fired gun; However, it only has two safeties, unlike, say, a 1911, which has four: An inertial firing pin, a positive firing-pin locking safety, a manual sear-locking/blocking safety, and a trigger-bar-blocking grip safety.
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