And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. It's arguably not the case in the third century. And I want to ask you about specifically the Eleusinian mysteries, centered around the goddesses Demeter and Persephone. So here's a question for you. I understand the appeal of that. I see it as-- well, OK, I'd see it as within a minority. The continuity theory proposes that older adults maintain the same activities, behaviors, personalities, and relationships of the past. And if there's historical precedent for it, all the more so. Kanye West (Ye) storms off Timcast IRL show after Tim Pool pushes back If you die before you die, you won't die when you die. But please do know that we will forward all these questions to Brian so he will know the sorts of questions his work prompts. Because they talk about everything else that they take issue with. CHARLES STANG: Brian, I want to thank you for your time. he goes out on a limb and says that black nightshade actually causes [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH], which is not unpleasant visions, i.e. Certainly these early churchmen used whatever they could against the forms of Christian practice they disapproved of, especially those they categorized as Gnostic. Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries No, I think you-- this is why we're friends, Charlie. There have been breakthroughs, too, which no doubt kept Brian going despite some skepticism from the academy, to say the least. I try to be careful to always land on a lawyer's feet and be very honest with you and everybody else about where this goes from here. So let's start, then, the first act. You might find it in a cemetery in Mexico. All episodes of The Tim Ferriss Show - Chartable You mentioned there were lots of dead ends, and there certainly were. [1] According to this theory, older adults try to maintain this continuity of lifestyle by adapting strategies that are connected to their past experiences. So why do you think psychedelics are so significant that they might usher in a new Reformation? If they've been doing this, as you suggest, for 2,000 years, nearly, what makes you think that a few ancient historians are going to turn that aircraft carrier around? And her best guess is that it was like this open access sanctuary. So, although, I mean, and that actually, I'd like to come back to that, the notion of the, that not just the pagan continuity hypothesis, but the mystery continuity hypothesis through the Vatican. What was discovered, as far as I can tell, from your treatment of it, is essentially an ancient pharmacy in this house. So even from the very beginning, it wasn't just barley and water. And another: in defending the pagan continuity hypothesis, Muraresku presumes a somewhat non-Jewish, pagan-like Jesus, while ignoring the growing body of psychedelic literature, including works by . And I, for one, look forward to a time when I can see him in person for a beer, ergotized beer or not, if he ever leaves Uruguay. And so the big hunt for me was trying to find some of those psychedelic bits. So that's something else to look into. As much as we know about the mysteries of Eleusis. Love potions, love charms, they're very common in the ancient. And what we know about the wine of the time is that it was prized amongst other things not for its alcoholic content, but for its ability to induce madness. And so with a revised ancient history, in place Brian tacks back to the title of our series, Psychedelics and the Future of Religion. There have been really dramatic studies from Hopkins and NYU about the ability of psilocybin at the end of life to curb things like depression, anxiety, and end of life distress. I mean, this is what I want to do with some of my remaining days on this planet, is take a look at all these different theories. And keep in mind that we'll drop down into any one of these points more deeply. I think it's important you have made a distinction between what was Jesus doing at the Last Supper, as if we could ever find out. It's not just Cana. And, as always the best way to keep abreast of this series and everything else we do here at the Center is to join our mailing list. CHARLES STANG: OK. And that's a question equally for ancient historians and for contemporary seekers and/or good Catholics. So can you reflect on the-- standing on the threshold of pharmaceutical companies taking control of this, how is that to be commended when the very people who have kept this alive would be pushed to the side in that move? Which is really weird, because that's how the same Dina Bazer, the same atheist in the psilocybin trials, described her insight. All he says is that these women and Marcus are adding drugs seven times in a row into whatever potion this is they're mixing up. But let me say at the outset that it is remarkably learned, full of great historical and philological detail. But I mentioned that we've become friends because it is the prerogative of friends to ask hard questions. But maybe you could just say something about this community in Catalonia. They found a tiny chalice this big, dated to the second century BC. Continuity Hypothesis - Keith E Rice's Integrated SocioPsychology Blog Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact." I have a deep interest in mysticism, and I've had mystical experiences, which I don't think are very relevant. Brian is the author of a remarkable new book that has garnered a lot of attention and has sold a great many copies. I mean, shouldn't everybody, shouldn't every Christian be wondering what kind of wine was on that table, or the tables of the earliest Christians? And did the earliest Christians inherit the same secret tradition? And what the FDA can do is make sure that they're doing it in a way that it's absolutely safe and efficacious. David Wakefield - President - Wakefield Enterprises, LLC | LinkedIn BRIAN MURARESKU: We can dip from both pies, Dr. Stang. I would have been happy to find a spiked wine anywhere. The Immortality Key has its shortcomings. "Pagan" and "Christian" Marriage: The State of the Question The mysteries of Dionysus, a bit weirder, a bit more off the grid. I don't think we have found it. In this episode, Brian C. Muraresku, who holds a degree from Brown University in Latin, Greek and Sanskrit, joins Breht to discuss his fascinating book "The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name", a groundbreaking dive into the use of hallucinogens in ancient Greece, the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, the role of the Eucharist in early Christianity, the . What, if any, was the relationship between this Greek sanctuary-- a very Greek sanctuary, by the way-- in Catalonia, to the mysteries of Eleusis? They're mixing potions. Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter.Welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out their routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life. Interesting. What about Jesus as a Jew? Why don't we turn the tables and ask you what questions you think need to be posed? The only reason I went to college was to study classics. So you were unable to test the vessels on site in Eleusis, which is what led you to, if I have this argument right, to Greek colonies around the Mediterranean. On Monday, February 22, we will be hosting a panel discussion taking up the question what is psychedelic chaplaincy. And apparently, the book is on order, so I can't speak to this directly, but the ancient Greek text that preserves this liturgy also preserves the formula, the ingredients of the eye ointment. So I think this was a minority of early Christians. And for some reason, I mean, I'd read that two or three times as an undergrad and just glossed over that line. Not in every single case, obviously. By which I mean that the Gospel of John suggests that at the very least, the evangelist hoped to market Christianity to a pagan audience by suggesting that Jesus was somehow equivalent to Dionysus, and that the Eucharist, his sacrament of wine, was equivalent to Dionysus's wine. The Tim Ferriss Show - Transcripts But you will be consoled to know that someone else will be-- I will be there, but someone else will be leading that conversation. They minimized or completely removed the Jewish debates found in the New Testament, and they took on a style that was more palatable to the wider pagan world. We see lots of descriptions of this in the mystical literature with which you're very familiar. So imagine how many artifacts are just sitting in museums right now, waiting to be tested. But I think there's a decent scientific foothold to begin that work. Not because it was brand new data. "@BrianMuraresku with @DocMarkPlotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More" Please enjoy! So perhaps there's even more evidence. The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name But we at least have, again, the indicia of evidence that something was happening there. So whatever was happening there was important. In this way, the two traditions coexisted in a syncretic form for some time before . And we had a great chat, a very spirited chat about the mysteries and the psychedelic hypothesis. And I think what the pharmaceutical industry can do is help to distribute this medicine. That is about the future rather than the ancient history. That's how we get to Catalonia. I know that that's a loaded phrase. And besides that, young Brian, let's keep the mysteries mysteries. This an absolute masterclass on why you must know your identity and goals before forming a habit, what the best systems are for habit. Continuity theory - Wikipedia BRIAN MURARESKU: I look forward to it, Charlie. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More by The Tim Ferriss Show BRIAN MURARESKU:: It's a simple formula, Charlie. I think psychedelics are just one piece of the puzzle. According to Muraresku, this work, BOOK REVIEW which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? And so for me, this was a hunt through the catacombs and archives and libraries, doing my sweet-talking, and trying to figure out what was behind some of those locked doors. There is evidence that has been either overlooked or perhaps intentionally suppressed. BRIAN MURARESKU: But you're spot on. You can see that inscribed on a plaque in Saint Paul's monastery at Mount Athos in Greece. But what I hear from people, including atheists, like Dina Bazer, who participated in these Hopkins NYU trials is that she felt like on her one and only dose of psilocybin that she was bathed in God's love. The continuity theory of normal aging states that older adults will usually maintain the same activities, behaviors, relationships as they did in their earlier years of life. So your presentation of early Christianity inclines heavily toward the Greek world. Because ergot is just very common. Yeah. Maybe there's some residual fear that's been built up in me. And I don't know if it's a genuine mystical experience or mystical mimetic or some kind of psychological breakthrough. I'll invite him to think about the future of religion in light of all this. So I present this as proof of concept, and I heavily rely on the Gospel of John and the data from Italy because that's what was there. So don't feel like you have to go into great depth at this point. The question is, what will happen in the future. And there were gaps as well. Because very briefly, I think Brian and others have made a very strong case that these things-- this was a biotechnology that was available in the ancient world. Books about pagan continuity hypothesis? Now-- and I think that we can probably concede that. He calls it a drug against grief in Greek, [SPEAKING GREEK]. It seems to me, though, that the intensity and the potency of the psychedelic experience is of an order of magnitude different than what I may have experienced through the Eucharist. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. And the second act, the same, but for what you call paleo-Christianity, the evidence for your suspicion that the Eucharist was originally a psychedelic sacrament. So the Eastern Aegean. This is going to be a question that's back to the ancient world. And I'm not even sure what that piece looks like or how big it is. Where does Western civilization come from? What's the importance of your abstention from psychedelics, given what is obvious interest. These two accuse one Gnostic teacher named Marcus-- who is himself a student of the famous theologian Valentinus-- they accuse him of dabbling in pharmacological devilry. BRIAN MURARESKU: I don't-- I don't claim too heavily. "The Tim Ferriss Show" 646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Religion has a Name: "Shamanism" - AKJournals So I'm not convinced that-- I think you're absolutely right that what this establishes is that Christians in southern Italy could have-- could have had access to the kinds of things that have been recovered from that drug farm, let's call it. And they found this site, along with others around the Mediterranean. And she talks about the visions that transformed the way she thinks about herself. I mean, so it was Greek. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More from The Tim Ferriss Show on Podchaser, aired Wednesday, 28th December 2022. And if the latter, do you think there's a good chance that religions will adopt psychedelics back into their rituals?". Joe Campbell puts it best that what we're after is an experience of being alive. Well, let's get into it then. That's just everlasting. So there's a whole slew of sites I want to test there. The idea of the truth shall set you free, right, [SPEAKING GREEK], in 8:32. CHARLES STANG: All right. It seems entirely believable to me that we have a potion maker active near Pompeii. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. BRIAN MURARESKU: I'm asked this question, I would say, in pretty much every interview I've done since late September. If beer was there that long ago, what kind of beer was it? To this day I remain a psychedelic virgin quite proudly, and I spent the past 12 years, ever since that moment in 2007, researching what Houston Smith, perhaps one of the most influential religious historians of the 20th century, would call the best kept secret in history. We have plays like the Bacchi from Euripides, where we can piece together some of this. At Cambridge University he worked in developmental biolo. All right, so now, let's follow up with Dionysus, but let's see here. So thank you, all who have hung with us. I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. And so the big question is what was happening there? Brian's thesis, that of the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, was explored by Alexander Hislop in his "The Two Babylons", 1853, as a Protestant treatise in the spirit of Martin Luther as Alexander too interjects the Elusinian Mysteries. Dogs, indicative of the Greek goddess Hecate, who, amongst other things was known as the [GREEK], the dog eater. Here's the big question. CHARLES STANG: OK. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving Rather, Christian beliefs were gradually incorporated into the pagan customs that already existed there. So throughout the book, you make the point that ancient beer and wine are not like our beer and wine. A combination of psychoactive plants, including opium, cannabis, and nightshade, along with the remains of reptiles and amphibians all steeped in wine, like a real witch's brew, uncovered in this house outside of Pompeii. And Ruck, and you following Ruck, make much of this, suggesting maybe the Gnostics are pharmacologists of some kind. Now the archaeologist of that site says-- I'm quoting from your book-- "For me, the Villa Vesuvio was a small farm that was specifically designed for the production of drugs." No one lived there. I see a huge need and a demand for young religious clergy to begin taking a look at this stuff. Find ratings and reviews for the newest movie and TV shows. He has talked about the potential evidence for psychedelics in a Mithras liturgy. Maybe part of me is skeptical, right? A profound knowledge of visionary plants, herbs, and fungi passed from one generation to the next, ever since the Stone Age? "The Influence of the Mystery Religions on Christianity" Now is there any evidence for psychedelic use in ancient Egypt, and if not, do you have any theory as to why that's silent? And she happened to find it on psilocybin. Not because it's not there, because it hasn't been tested. McGovern also finds wine from Egypt, for example, in 3150 BC, wine that is mixed with a number of interesting ingredients. CHARLES STANG: We're often in this situation where we're trying to extrapolate from evidence from Egypt, to see is Egypt the norm or is it the exception? The Immortality Key - Book Review and Discussion - Were early - Reddit What I see is data that's been largely neglected, and I think what serves this as a discipline is just that. It was one of the early write-ups of the psilocybin studies coming out of Johns Hopkins. And so I do see an avenue, like I kind of obliquely mentioned, but I do think there's an avenue within organized religion and for people who dedicate their lives as religious professionals to ministry to perhaps take a look at this in places where it might work. Eusebius, third into the fourth century, is also talking about them-- it's a great Greek word, [SPEAKING GREEK]. There's evidence of the mysteries of Dionysus before, during, and after the life of Jesus, it's worth pointing out. and he said, Brian, don't you dare. So how does Dionysian revelries get into this picture? Psychedelics Weekly - Prince Harry and Psychedelics, Proposed There were formula. It is not psychedelics. When Irenaeus is talking about [SPEAKING GREEK], love potions, again, we have no idea what the hell he's talking about. The kind of mysticism I've always been attracted to, like the rule of Saint Benedict and the Trappist monks and the Cistercian monks. Get personalized recommendations, and learn where to watch across hundreds of streaming providers. So, like, they're wonderstruck, or awestruck by their libations and their incense. 32:57 Ancient languages and Brian's education . Psychedelics are a lens to investigate this stuff. would certainly appreciate. And I think there are lots of reasons to believe that. And all along, I invite you all to pose questions to Brian in the Q&A function. Here's what we don't. So to find dog sacrifice inside this Greek sanctuary alludes to this proto-witch, Hecate, the mother of Circe, who is mentioned in the same hymn to Demeter from the 8th, 7th century BC, as kind of the third of the goddesses to whom these mysteries were dedicated. Like savory, wormwood, blue tansy, balm, senna, coriander, germander, mint, sage, and thyme. All rights reserved. The continuity hypothesis of dreams suggests that the content of dreams are largely continuous with waking concepts and concerns of the dreamer. Please materialize. You won't find it in many places other than that. I'm trying to get him to speak in the series about that. To some degree, I think you're looking back to southern Italy from the perspective of the supremacy of Rome, which is not the case in the first century. The continuity between pagan and Christian cult nearby the archaeological area of Naquane in Capo di Ponte. First, the continuity of the offices must be seen in light of the change of institutional charges; they had lost their religious connotations and had become secular. I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. So Dionysus is not the god of alcohol. Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and Conservation We have an hour and a half together and I hope there will be time for Q&A and discussion. He comes to this research with a full suite of scholarly skills, including a deep knowledge of Greek and Latin as well as facility in a number of European languages, which became crucial for uncovering some rather obscure research in Catalan, and also for sweet-talking the gatekeepers of archives and archaeological sites. I expect we will find it. And I'm happy to see we have over 800 people present for this conversation. A rebirth into a new conception of the self, the self's relationship to things that are hard to define, like God. But if the original Eucharist were psychedelic, or even if there were significant numbers of early Christians using psychedelics like sacrament, I would expect the representatives of orthodox, institutional Christianity to rail against it. Those of you who don't know his name, he's a professor at the University of Amsterdam, an expert in Western esotericism. This discussion on Febrary 1, 2021, between CSWR Director Charles Stang and Brian Muraresku about his new book, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name,a groundbreaking dive into the role of psychedelics in the ancient Mediterranean world. And so I don't think that psychedelics are coming to replace the Sunday Eucharist. In 1950, Martin Luther King, Jr. wrote " The Influence of the Mystery Religions on Christianity " which describes the continuity from the Pagan, pre-Christian world to what would become early Christianity in the decades and centuries before Jesus Religion & Mystical Experiences, Wine I also sense another narrative in your book, and one you've flagged for us, maybe about 10 minutes ago, when you said that the book is a proof of concept. And the one thing that unites both of those worlds in this research called the pagan continuity hypothesis, the one thing we can bet on is the sacred language of Greek. And I started reading the studies from Pat McGovern at the University of Pennsylvania. It's some kind of wine-based concoction, some kind of something that is throwing these people into ecstasy. If your history is even remotely correct, that would have ushered in a very different church, if Valentinus's own student Marcus and the Marcosians were involved in psychedelic rituals, then that was an early road not taken, let's say. 55 This is very likely as it seems that the process had already started in the 4th century. Brian C. Muraresku (@BrianMuraresku) / Twitter And the reason I find that a worthy avenue of pursuit is because when you take a step back and look at the Greek of the Gospels, especially the Greek of John, which is super weird, what I see based on Dennis MacDonald's scholarship that you mentioned-- and others-- when you do the exegesis of John's gospel, there's just lots of vocabulary and lots of imagery that doesn't appear elsewhere. It's not the case in the second century.
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